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To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

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To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby frankie » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:26 am

Hi!

Was browsing by the screen trumpet demo over at https://soundcloud.com/garritan/scream- ... ychosis-in and this guy called Kyle McHattie claims it's not the actual Garritan trumpets being used. He also discourages other people from buying Garritan products.

Anybody mind setting him straight?

Thanks!

https://soundcloud.com/garritan/scream-trumpet-psychosis-in
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby Credo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:54 pm

Fake?
The samples aren't fake sounding at all....they're just super dry. Putting them in a decent sounding 'virtual room' takes some patience and practice...with ANY brass recordings or samples.

Getting the Brass and Big Band Library to sound like that Demo is INDEED very possible. Particularly if you're working with a DAW or some sort of tracking based sequencer. It just takes a little practice. You DEFINATELY must read the entire manual to see how to get the doits, kisses, falls, and shakes!

If you're using a scoring package instead of a tracking sequencer...results may vary depending upon what you're arranging, and how up to date your 'expression maps' are. Something like Finale or Sibelius can get you 'in the ball park' just by plugging in the notes and articulation markings...but a serious 'mock up' may well require you at least fiddle with the convolution and reverb settings by hand, or a bit of in depth tweaking to drop in extra controller messages and/or smarten up your scoring package's expression maps.

Brass sample libraries take practice to master...period.
Working them into a 'mix' intended to come out of loud speakers is no easy task...

Here's my personal take on the Garritan brass.........

First, keep in mind that more than one Garritan library has a pretty robust set of brass samples.

Concert and Marching Band (Intended to come across as a large ensemble or sections of instruments...meant to blend easily into a mix with minimal effort on the user's part). Most of the Brass patches can be used either monophinically (one note at a time on a track/staff), or polyphonically (divisi). You do get some solo patches that add the ability to control vibrato....but again these brass kits are intended to work into the context of larger ensembles. You do get a couple of mute styles for most of the brass instruments (straight or cup). To my ears...this brass library is pretty weak when it comes to strong 'isolated' solo work. When it comes to a big arrangement however...it's nice sounding and very easy to use. From a psycho-acoustic perspective, it's one of the best libraries I've ever worked with, despite how small it is (storage and other system requirements). It's just plain easy to get a pleasing 'blend' when cranking out a quick score. The brain knows quite well what parts belong to what instruments...and it's quite easy to 'mix'. Perhaps the coolest thing about this library is the span of instruments it covers! Not only do you get the traditional symphonic brasses, but it also expands into stuff like marching f horns, flugals, baritone/alto horns, sousaphones, and more. The same can be said for the ground covered on woodwinds and percussion with this Library.

Personal Orchestra (Intended to blend with other instruments as well....but you'll have to build your own 'ensemble/section' blends player by player/part by part. Here you don't get as many brass instruments (stuff like mellophones, sousas, various baritones and alto horns, etc.) Instead, you get lots of layers of the base symphonic brass instruments, and they can be configured to pop out of a mix, or blend in. Again, you can go poly or mono with most of the patches. With this library you actually get two different brass sets....Garritan's own version, and instruments by SAM. To me personally, the Garritan brass is gentler, blends better into larger arrangements, and has a more American feel, while the SAM set is wetter, darker, more dramatic, filmesque, or even European feeling. You get solo versions of instruments with controllable vibrato, and a couple of mute types.

Jazz and Big Band (In your face.....these are the most 'flexible' of Garritan brass patches in that you can tweak all sorts of filters in real time to add punch and variety to different articulations. The full versions are monophonic, and you get enough sample sets for at least 5 players per section (possibly more if you're mindful of not doubling voices with a shared sample). Lite versions of the patches are also included...which allow you to do polyphonic voicing on a single channel, but might not include the full complement of tweakable variables found in the monophonic versions. You get the regular mutes...plus some harmon type patches (can use filters to emulate a convincing wa-wa-plunger - add tacet or hat effects), adjustable air noise, valve clattering, flutter effects, doits, falls, and kisses for the higher notes of some instruments (like trumpets). While very flexible...these tend to be brighter/louder patches that can take a bit of work making them 'blend' with concert band or symphonic music. I love to mix these at lower volumes into marching, concert, and symphonic pieces with patches from the other Garritan libraries to make articulations cut through a mix.

Instant Orchestra (More of a rompler style collection). This set is more of a texture/mood builder. You get big powerful brass section sounds that can sound quite realistic when laid properly into a mix; however, this isn't a set for detailed brass arranging.

Personal observation about all of the libraries above...

The Garritan stuff strikes a pretty good balance between ease of use, affordability, and potential for 'realism'.

The samples are great quality considering the price range of the products, and they are VERY dry...as in virtually no natural reverb in the samples themselves. When it comes to working this stuff into an actual mix with other instruments, that 'dryness' can be a good thing! This gives YOU full control over the type of convolution or reverb you want in the mix.

ARIA Player has a pretty nice reverb and convolution set-up built in. You can get some nice and realistic sounds from it out of the box. It still takes a bit of practice if you're trying to convince people that your mix is using 'real live brass'.

To me...the Garritan Brass stuff is full of brassy mid-range overtones....the samples are faithful to what a mic hears in an extremely dry room. They can be a little harsh with a bright edge when listening to a single note with no reverb or convolution enabled...but again, this to me is a good thing because it is easier to use EQ and/or limiters/compression to round off unwanted edges than it is to try to create said overtones with samples that don't have them!

Now for the tricky stuff....
Working with brass and recording has never been easy for me...be it sampled instruments or live musicians. A large part of the character of a brass instrument's sound is the choice of mic, where it's placed, and the acoustics of the room itself! More often than not....when it comes to brass sounds on recordings...it's not the brass instrument that's fake sounding...but rather the room characteristics that are making our ears figure (this sounds fake).

Just a bit of irony....sometimes I pull out what little hair I have left trying to get brass tracks to sound real. When all else fails I can sometimes just use a mic to record it playing through the speakers...and the process of it going into a real room and other analogue stages makes all the difference in the world! The point being...brass tracks can be a PITA.

So....over the years I've found various brass patches that seem to sound great on their own. They're all wet with luscious tape saturation, tube pre-amps, or reverb of one sort or another (that can't be removed since it's part of the actual sample)...but then I start trying to actually use them in a mix and it goes down hill fast! Articulations get lost...overtones disappear to the point that I'd might as well be working with sine waves, and phasing problems arise...and well.....what sounds good all by itself just doesn't always work in a 'mix'.

In mixing and matching Garritan libraries....I've found it much easier to work brass sections into all sorts of mixes. After more than 2 years of playing with digital recording....I still have not maxed out the potential of my Garritan libraries. No...I'm not 'in love' with every single note in every single patch.......but I've definitely gotten my money's worth from all of the Libraries.

In summary:
Are there better brass libraries? You bet your boots there are libraries out there that include many more velocity layers and articulations; however, they are dedicated Brass libraries that can cost more than the entire Garritan Ultimate Collection.

Garritan's Brasses come with sets that include far more than just brass, and for the money, it all sounds pretty dawg gone good together without much extra effort on the user's part.

So...even if you do shell out half a grand just for a top notch 'dedicated brass library', keep in mind that it's still going to require PRACTICE to master working it into a mix. Your biggest benefit with a dedicated top end brass library is going to be more one-touch articulation styles...and maybe more dynamic/velocity layers sampled from ppp up to fffff; however, that alone isn't going to keep it from sounding 'fake'.

Personally...I'd recommend starting with something like Garritan that has lots of variety, and decent quality samples that are DRY at the source. If ARIA Player isn't enough for you to 'place' the sound within a realistic context...use the multi-output version of ARIA instead and disable its built in effects...invest in a top quality set of plugins for convolution, reverb, and other artificial room shaping technologies and practice that....otherwise, blowing a ton of cash on a premium 'brass library' might still leave you wondering why it still sounds so 'fake'.

In short, there's not a magic brass library out there that I know of. Brass instruments are super dynamic...and the rooms they play in are even more so. ALL of them require a good deal of practice to work into a mix and retain authenticity and realism. In my experience...working with real brass and mics is almost as hard...or maybe even harder in some cases. So...I recommend mastering a good mid level library with a lot of variety for the money before sinking top dollar into high level brass libraries. Garritan libraries don't 'specialize in brass'...instead you get a massive pallet of useable sounds that you can find 'space for' in almost any 'mix'. That's a lot of bang for the money...and you don't need a 4k top end computer and a pocket full of funky dongles and keys to run it (though I do highly recommend getting an audio card or USB/Firewire interface that in the least has ASIO drivers and can get your latencies down to less than 40ms...messing with virtual synths/samplers without such an interface is just asking for frustration)!

Credo
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby frankie » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:48 pm

Hi!

Thanks a bunch for this super awesome reply!

I sent a message to that other dude asking him to drop by this thread and let us know if he still stands by his claims.
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby SysExJohn » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:54 am

Well said Credo.

Got to be about the best summary of Garritan products I've read.

The most cost effective libraries I know.

If one can't get them to work, look to one's own sequencing skills.
One shouldn't expect a robot (notation software) to 'know' what one is trying to achieve.
Put in the effort, learn, don't blame someone else. (Credo's credo?)

It's the reason why I try to sort out the few little glitches that have somehow slipped through the net of Beta testing.

Definitely worth at least one extra reputation point. ;) :) :D 8-)

Regards,
John.
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby gogreen » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:48 pm

Thank you, Credo, for taking the time to provide this excellent information.

I work mainly with GPO4 and COMB2. I find the trumpet samples in COMB2 to be very strident--so much so that I often dial their highs down to -7 or -8 for a mellower yet still trumpet-like sound. Not complaining--this is just an observation.

I create mostly concert band scores with combinations of GPO4 and COMB2 instruments, and occasionally SoftSynth sounds for some percussion effects. I most often use the convolution reverb with the modern concert hall setting. The Aria send settings for reverb are mostly at the 12 o' clock or 1 o' clock position across the board.
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby Credo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:46 pm

gogreen wrote:Thank you, Credo, for taking the time to provide this excellent information.

I work mainly with GPO4 and COMB2. I find the trumpet samples in COMB2 to be very strident--so much so that I often dial their highs down to -7 or -8 for a mellower yet still trumpet-like sound. Not complaining--this is just an observation.


Agreed about the strident nature. I have a similar practice of rolling off some frequencies here...at least while I'm composing and roughing in the mix.

When it's time to mix down and master something to share however....I find that it's often necessary to crank that stuff back up for it to translate well in today's typical ear buds, computer speakers, and 'home theater' style speakers. Today's systems seem to be 'all about the BASS' and seem to me to require extra punch in the mids and highs for anything other than super compressed (not much dynamic range...just as loud as possible from start to end) 'pop music'. If the music has a lot of dynamic range...today's common speakers just have a hard time translating it well.

I use old Yamaha NS-10M studio monitors (not the best for school band, classical, and jazz mixing, but it's what I have) and they'll easily shred my ears without toning the highs and mids down more than a bit. Particularly with brass tracks. Next I screen through some small BOSE computer monitors, some really flat Sennheiser 280 cans, then cheap ear buds....and then out to the Car (cheap stock stuff).

I suppose it's all a life long learning process.

It's hard enough for me to get a mix that sounds good in one set of speakers.......it's mind-boggling (to me anyway) to get something that sounds half way decent in several different grades and types of speakers.

Credo
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby Kyle McHattie » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:53 am

This is the infamous Kyle McHattie. I'd like to start by saying that my comment was probably unfair but would like to explain why I made it. I'm completely willing to be wrong and take any practical advice on how to use this library. However, I am not some new user who has never used a sample library, expensive workstations or DAW software. I am a trumpet player and have been for 35 years. I have played professionally. I have a small project studio that includes a Korg Kronos, akai ewi and mpk88 and I use Reason 8.1 because it works better than protools, imo.

My comment was made because I was frustrated to find that not only could I not make the trumpets sound realistic (and I have other libraries that do), I couldn't find ANY way to address the issue with anyone at garritan at all.

Understand that I LOVED the sound of the demo. I WANT to be able to create tracks that have instruments that sound like this. However, if it takes me hours just to make it to sound remotely as good as the demo, I'm just not interested. Frankly, I wanted to use my EWI and have the trumpet sound close with a little tweaking. With other libraries, I have been able to do that for the most part. I bought the Garritan big band library because of the screaming trumpet. I would have paid the price of the whole library for that trumpet sound alone.

If someone can actually show me how to get that sound even close, I will apologize profusely and pull the comment.

In fact, I will not only pull the comment but give a rave review and create a youtube video showing people how to attain that sound themselves.
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby Credo » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:33 am

Kyle McHattie wrote:This is the infamous Kyle McHattie. I'd like to start by saying that my comment was probably unfair but would like to explain why I made it. I'm completely willing to be wrong and take any practical advice on how to use this library. However, I am not some new user who has never used a sample library, expensive workstations or DAW software. I am a trumpet player and have been for 35 years. I have played professionally. I have a small project studio that includes a Korg Kronos, akai ewi and mpk88 and I use Reason 8.1 because it works better than protools, imo.

My comment was made because I was frustrated to find that not only could I not make the trumpets sound realistic (and I have other libraries that do), I couldn't find ANY way to address the issue with anyone at garritan at all.

Understand that I LOVED the sound of the demo. I WANT to be able to create tracks that have instruments that sound like this. However, if it takes me hours just to make it to sound remotely as good as the demo, I'm just not interested. Frankly, I wanted to use my EWI and have the trumpet sound close with a little tweaking. With other libraries, I have been able to do that for the most part. I bought the Garritan big band library because of the screaming trumpet. I would have paid the price of the whole library for that trumpet sound alone.

If someone can actually show me how to get that sound even close, I will apologize profusely and pull the comment.

In fact, I will not only pull the comment but give a rave review and create a youtube video showing people how to attain that sound themselves.


Making good brass tracks that sound real...even with LIVE PERFORMERS playing REAL INSTRUMENTS can take hours. Man hours are man hours....be all the load placed on a single individual, or spread among many. Just setting up a recording session can be half a day or more. Prepping the recording environment will take multiple people some hours. Rehearsal and recording sessions will take X hours 'per man'. Mixing and mastering stages yet another X amount of man hours. Time is always a factor in music production. Especially when one is new at something and learning.

Being new is not an insult. It happens every day. I've been doing music since 1974, and using computers since the Univac 1 in college. When I changed from Atari to PC, it was 'new' and took time to remaster the same old skills. When I moved from Windows version X to version Y, I was new at a bunch of stuff again, and it took some weeks to adjust. Just moving from CuBase 7 to 8 took a day or so of adjusting. So NEW, and the time getting adjusted is always part of the game. Garritan libraries are just instruments (new to some people, even though they've been on the market with relatively few changes for a long time), with good quality points, and also annoying weak areas, but they're still powerful tools none the less.

Anyway one slices it...it's going to take some practice to do good brass tracks in recordings....even with the best and most expensive sample sets on the planet (in such a case, be prepared to audition thousands of presets hunting for a sound...still costing 'time'). Even with conservatory grade professional musicians in a world class studio (mic placements, blown takes, etc.).

As with any craft...things do become faster and more efficient with new technologies, knowledge, and practice. Try it...if you enjoy it, great, do it yourself. If you don't enjoy the work, and have the resources or skills to compensate others in some way.......pass it on to others to spend 'time' with.

Making a solo brass patch that sounds real played by itself is pretty easy....getting that same patch to 'fit' in to 'musical phrases' and then blend into a 'mix', and still sound 'real' can be a whole different story.

I'll try to offer some pointers and perhaps put up some example midi files when I get a chance.

More on the wind controller a bit later........
Start out with a keyboard or drawing in an editor, and then things will start to make more sense as to how you can configure your wind controller to get these trumpets responding in ways that makes sense to you.

One thing I can tell you right off the bat is to spend a little time with the effects section of ARIA Player (unless you're using external plugins for convolution and reverb...in that case spend some time setting up a proper room in those respective plugins).

Just as a quick example....
Load up Trumpet 1 from JABB3 in ARIA to the first slot on channel 1.
Go to the EFFECTS tab and disable everything.
Play a few riffs on your keyboard.

It's going to sound very tinny, dry, and harsh....almost like someone's crammed a broken harmon mute in way too far! It's so dry, it almost sounds 'fake'....but really, that's exactly what a trumpet would sound like in a super dry room designed NOT to let any sound refract and bounce around. Some of these recording rooms that these kinds of samples are made in are so dry and sound proof, that you can hear your own blood rushing through the veins in your ears!

Now just enable the Convolution effect and choose Small Orchestra Hall.

Next go to the Mixer Tab and turn the send up somewhere between 0 and 50%.

Play a few riffs and tweak that send around a bit.

Note, you can automate the FX send in ARIA player over MIDI using CC91.
Different mixes between the master volume (CC7) and the FX send (CC91) can make the instrument seem to come from 'further away or close' to a mic source.

In the controls panel, you can also find 'stereo staging' adjustments which can be automated with CC36 for placing an instrument's position (distance) relative to the 'virtual mic'.

You should already be much closer to the sound in that Demo. Now that we've placed the trumpet into a virtual room....the harsh overtones bounce around so they mix and meld more like they would in a real room.

Try some different convolution presets and see how much difference they each make.

The rest is about learning the strengths and weaknesses of a patch (or set of patches) and sequencing techniques. Arranging to the instruments you have at hand is similar to arranging for a specific band or orchestra...where you feature its strengths and hide its weaknesses. Without practicing some of the techniques below....arrangements with wind instruments on computers are usually going to sound more like a fancy organ than a wind ensemble. Unless you get into more of the following concepts.

Fiddle with the mod wheel while you're playing some rips and licks. I.E. start it at 50%, move it up as you play higher notes, down with lower notes, and even play around with adding some of the nuanced rises and falls over a single note that a human player might do that would influence the volume. Even if it's just subtle changes on every single note...it'll start to make a big difference as your phrases develop and other parts and instruments are added.

The same goes for velocity....how hard or fast you strike keys is going to impact the tone quality of every note. Sometimes you might prefer the tone quality of a really light stroke, but want to bring the volume up to better match the next note which you preferred at a really high velocity. These subtle changes in velocity mixed with tweaking of the mod wheel (CC1) can help you start to bring out or soften articulations. Really, every single note in a phrase should have a different velocity and volume...even if it's just slight changes...it's going to alter the timber enough that things are far more expressive.

Next comes de-quantization or humanizing. This mainly applies to section work...but shifting the attacks of all the parts a few milliseconds apart will bring out the attack phase of all your parts better. Doing the same for note releases can also help quite a lot. The key here is, if every single horn in the section is attacking and releasing in sync at resolutions of 720bps and higher...well....they're all going to cover each other to some extent.....a muddy mess that's harder for human hears to separate. A REAL brass section is NEVER that precise....the attacks, releases, and 'space between' them for all of the section parts are quite distinguishable.

As for the rips throughout the demo. I gather that some of them are carefully arranged with ultra short midi note events (I'm sensing that some may even be shorter than a 64th note at that tempo...maybe as short as 127th (he's probably adjusting the decay time with a cc controller as well).....in these cases the arranger is letting the characteristics of the 'artificial room' do alot of the work), while others use the the extended sample set (using controller CC15) to pull in fall and doit samples. The CC15 effects are 'release' effects...I.E. The fall or doit doesn't begin until you release the note. On the CONTROLS tab, you can see that CC29 will allow you to adjust the volume of releases (falls, doits, and kisses evoked with CC15).

Legato and portamento effects are big contributors as well. With these particular trumpet patches, the two effects work together. You can choose between an auto mode...or manual pedal controlled mode. In auto mode, if a second note overlaps (starts before you release the first note) the attack changes to a more legato style, and whatever portamento values (CC20 and 21) you have set take effect.

This legato-portamento area is also one way to achieve 'shake' effects in an arrangement. Another way to get some interesting shakes is to use the pitch bend wheel, but draw in 'steps' with slight curves at their peaks, rather than gradual curves and ramps (which would give unwanted glissando effects).

There are a number of things on that CONTROLS tab that can bring a lot of flair and add realism to a phrase. All of them can be controlled using CC messages as noted in parenthesis.

I.E. During a sforzando that ends at fff or louder....you could also use those filters (CC26 and CC27) to gradually brighten and thin out the timber.

I.E. Brass players use different vowel shapes and teeth spacing with the mouth to get all sorts of variations in articulations. On one note he might shape with mouth for a Teeeeee, sound, and on another a Taaaa, Tooooo, etc. Tweaking these filters can help shape essential variety in emulating different tonging styles...as well as emulated caps, kit-kats, doo-dits and da-dats, etc.

One of the first things I always notice when listening to real brass vs sampled brass is split partials from humans, that computers don't have (unless we add them somehow)! Almost every human hits a note slightly off pitch and then corrects it over time. The louder, higher, and sloppier a riff is, the more likely a player is to actually split partials (it may be slight, or pretty big, but it's almost always noticeable on close miced brass) on the attack (lips are buzzing one thing, while the air column is trying to resonate another). To me split partials are like a sonic tug of war.....and they are a BIG part of what makes jazz style playing interesting.

The tracks in the demo don't seem to use these effects...but...if you want split partial effects...experiment with subtle pitch bend commands. For more outstanding split partial effects, try layering a second track on another channel (pan it to exactly the same position in the stereo field) with a different trumpet patch (slightly de-tuned) at a low volume, and fading such pitches in and out as needed (don't be afraid to use horn or trombone patches even...maybe even pure saw/sine/square waves...the point is that it's possible to add to those split partial effects that real players exhibit). The pitch wheel controller can be used to find pitches 'between' half tones (of course you'll have to draw these into an editor as instant 'step changes' or 'quick jumps' rather than 'ramps and curves' since you might not want the 'bended portamento' effect).

Don't underestimate the 'wind noise' option. Add it later when all the parts of the arrangement are ready to mix down....but it can add a good deal realistic spark.

Now back to your wind controller........
After you've played with these trumpets a bit with a keyboard and sequencer, it should begin to make a lot more sense as to what CC messages you want your controller to send, how sensitive they should be...and when, and how you want them sent. It's a whole different animal for sure, and for a truly dynamic jazz style screaming trumpet, don't be surprised if you actually need to cycle among dozens of presets on your wind controller for a single song.

Hope this is somewhat helpful...and at first it probably seems like a difficult and time consuming process. At first it is! It doesn't take too long to get the hang of it though, and even discover methods to automate a lot of stuff, and reuse your work again and again (after all, music is really repetitive...do you really draw or play that double swiss paraddidle drum lick in every single time you need it? Or do you copy and paste it from a toolbox? :) A trumpet jazz lick tool box can save just as much time as a percussion rudiment tool box.

Don't be afraid to ask specific questions. People can help you better with less vague questions. I.E. Posting a midi file of a simple riff and asking how to get it to work better.
I.E. A specific example of where you'd like a doit or fall.

As for the Demo in question....it's pretty obvious to me that it's from this very JABB3 library.
When I get a little time, I'll see if I can't transcribe it here and break down some of the techniques they're using to get those sounds. It'd be even better though, if you're willing to put up some examples of your own phrases and tracks that you'd like to 'brass up'.

Credo
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Last edited by Credo on Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby SysExJohn » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:52 am

Credo,

Simply outstanding!

John.
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Re: To those saying Garritan trumpets sound fake

Postby Kyle McHattie » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:57 pm

First, Credo, thank you for the detailed response. I know it took a lot of time to do it and I really do appreciate it. There is information in here that is very valuable.

However, if this was intended for me personally, and not new producers in general, I could have saved you a lot of time. As I said in my initial response, I am not new to brass instruments or recording them. I have played and recorded for 35+ years. I do know how to get a decent and real sounding brass recording. As I also said, I have other libraries that sound much better in their raw, state without effects. I have never had to spend hours setting up a good brass recording, with a real instrument or with samples. I can see how spending more time would definitely improve the realism and I do intend to use some of your advice to improve mine, but my problem with this library is much less to do with being theoretically able to make realistic sounding tracks and much more to do with the practicality of trying to do so. I wanted to be able to set this up to play live, as I have been able to do with other libraries. The screaming trumpet in the demo was the most realistic sounding trumpet in that musical range I had heard. I was disappointed to find out that it's virtually impossible to get that sound without sequencing controllers and effects in post. I still find the demo misleading.

This library is sold by garritan using the ARIA player. I was turned on to it through my use of the library that comes with the EWI USB. I love the default sounds that come with the EWI USB and they sound better to me than the JABB3, with regard to the relative ease of setting the sounds up to play with the EWI. Again, I am NOT a novice at this. I am well aware of how to setup MIDI CC controllers, etc.

I know I sound like an *** after all of your hard work and willingness to put this information in here, and I apologize for coming off this way. But I am still disappointed that this is more of a "kit to make sequenced tracks sound like trumpets" versus a good solid sounding live playable library. And I guess that is how I should have phrased my initial comment to the soundcloud demo.

So in conclusion, I am more than willing to change my comment on the soundcloud demo to "This library takes a lot of work and tweaking to sound like this and you can't just play the screaming trumpet sound out of the box". That's about the best I am willing to do though.
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Kyle McHattie
 
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