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Brass flutter tongue?

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Brass flutter tongue?

Postby Friendly Floyd » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:13 pm

I'm a little disappointed that the woodwinds have flutter tongue options, but the brass does not. However, I have a notion that it could possibly be replicated by a tremolo note and fiddling with the initial attack velocity. Can this be done, and what are the specifics if so? And if not, I hereby submit a request that this option be added in Personal Orchestra.
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Re: Brass flutter tongue?

Postby rbowser » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:59 pm

Friendly Floyd wrote:I'm a little disappointed that the woodwinds have flutter tongue options, but the brass does not...

Brass in JABB have a Growl control, which isn't the same as flutter tongue, but it's a control not available in GPO which is a rather more "polite" Library, originally developed for classical and modern classical pieces.

You could experiment with CC1 or 11 (performance volume control) in really fast jumps - like hand inserting a full value, a low value directly after- over and over for the duration of a note. It would be - Something--lol--not quite sure what.

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Re: Brass flutter tongue?

Postby wrayer » Thu May 15, 2014 12:07 pm

I use Finale 2014 and the Aria Engine has a flutter control at CC 18. See Image at:

Notice I have also altered the default settings for the equalizer. I think these settings are closer to a trumpet sound. The flutter is set to 63% - the lower the number the slower the flutter.

It sounds like this: Not truly a flutter, but it would do well in an ensemble setting.

and I notate it this way:

Thought there are many ways to notate it. These markings do NOT create the flutter, the Aria settings do.

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Re: Brass flutter tongue?

Postby Credo » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:06 pm

I'm able to get a decent flutter tongue using a MIDI Echo Insert.

In my case CuBase 8 Pro has a bunch of inserts for non destructively manipulating midi. I've only needed it once and considered just fiddling with really small values of the 'snap/quantize' feature in one my midi editors and drawing it in by hand, then I remembered that rack of MIDI effect processors that came with my DAW. In my case I haven't looked into the possibility of automating the effect in real time (though it probably can be done with various quick links). Instead I just set it up and made a few variations on a single note and did a 'freeze' for each one on a single track which I could archive for easy cut and paste in the spots where I need the effect.

That particular effect gave me all sorts of choices in how I could time the echoes, ramp/decay or compress the velocities, and even gave me the ability to add pitch offsets or arpeggio effects. As I fiddle with it right now, I can even see the potential to build some decent falls, shakes, and rips too. I'll have to play more with this thing and figure out how to automate it in real time :)

The Arppegiator effect can also be used for building these types of effects.

If your DAW doesn't have some sort of MIDI Echo effect, there are various collections of VST plugins out there that might work for you. I did a quick search on Google with the key words "MIDI Echo VST" and got hits on a few different collections (some even seem to be free).

Also, depending on your MIDI Controller/Keyboard.......
Quite a few of them have built in arppegiators (or come with VST Plugins) that can be set up to achieve a flutter tongue like effect. If your controller can do this, it might be the easiest way to enable/disable/manipulate the effect in real time without having to wade through the process of doing quick-links and/or midi remote maps in your DAW. In this case you'd 'record' your passage onto a track or staff in your DAW.

If you happen to have one...Any MPC Pad worth it's weight will have a 'rudiments' machine that could do the flutter thing.

When it comes to working with a scoring package, sometimes I find it convenient to just build my own effects with a sequencer that features a piano roll scroll (you should be able to find some good free ones these days....if all else fails in finding a simple but powerful MIDI sequencer for your platform, there are several great free ones for Atari ST that run in the free Steem for PC or Nostalgia for Mac Emulators), and import them into the program as a midi file. I cut and paste them on the score, make it invisible, and then use whatever shorthand notation style I want. If it's really complicated and throws the spacing all out of wack, I'll sometimes put the fancy stuff on a stave all its own that'll become invisible at print time, and mute the short hand notes in the rendition of the passage that's meant to be seen/printed.

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