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Instrument differences

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Instrument differences

Postby gogreen » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:55 pm

I hate to ask what to some might seem like a silly question. Nevertheless, what is the difference between, in this one example, "n-Alto Sax Group 1" and "n-Alto Sax Group-solo 1 KS"? I understand the KS part. I hear no difference.

Thanks.

Art
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Arthur J. Michaels
https://www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels
Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM
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gogreen
 
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Software Owned:
Finale 2000 to Finale 2014.5 (currently using 2014.5)
COMB2
GPO4, GPO5
Aria Player 1.860
Aria Engine 1.860

Re: Instrument differences

Postby rbowser » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:28 pm

gogreen wrote:I hate to ask what to some might seem like a silly question. Nevertheless, what is the difference between, in this one example, "n-Alto Sax Group 1" and "n-Alto Sax Group-solo 1 KS"? I understand the KS part. I hear no difference.

Thanks.

Art


The first one has samples of a group, the KS can be switched from solo to group so you don't need a separate solo sax like from JABB.

R
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Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
rbowser
 
Posts: 494
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 50
Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

Re: Instrument differences

Postby gogreen » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Ok. So with the KS sample I can switch between solo and group sounds? If that's true, I'm guessing I do that with expressions?

Art
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Arthur J. Michaels
https://www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels
Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM
Windows 10 Home x64 SP 1
M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
M-Audio AV40 monitors
User avatar
gogreen
 
Posts: 109
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 12
Software Owned:
Finale 2000 to Finale 2014.5 (currently using 2014.5)
COMB2
GPO4, GPO5
Aria Player 1.860
Aria Engine 1.860

Re: Instrument differences

Postby rbowser » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:25 pm

gogreen wrote:Ok. So with the KS sample I can switch between solo and group sounds? If that's true, I'm guessing I do that with expressions?

Art

You haven't used KS instruments before, Art? They're used all through the Libraries, like all those string articulations in GPO. In the case of your COMB Sax Group-Solo patch, look at the ARIA keyboard. The low colored notes show you where the switches are. The C in the octave below the instrument range turns on the default patch which is Group. The G above that switches to the solo sax.

You don't switch them with expressions - They're notes that just need to be triggered. So in DAW software, you just play that note before you want the change to start, or insert them in the PRV. In notation, insert the note but hide it.

Randy
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Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
rbowser
 
Posts: 494
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 50
Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

Re: Instrument differences

Postby gogreen » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:32 pm

You haven't used KS instruments before, Art?

Sure I have--most of the time. But in Finale, changes are triggered most often with expressions, and Finale understands straight text expressions like "mute." So I think if I use the KS group example we're talking about and apply a "solo" expression," Finale will know what to do. I'll test this.

In other testing I just did, the KS samples are less blippy than solo samples. The KS samples also play both lines in divisi sections on the same staff--solo samples play only the top notes.

I'm reviewing this information and second-guessing myself because I want to make sure I'm getting all I can from COMB2 and GPO4 in Finale. That blippiness is still on my mind, and I'm thinking about reworking my most troublesome scores with different instrument selections. I wonder if it has anything to do with choosing, or not choosing, KS instruments, for one factor. I also wonder about using COMB2 instruments with, in my case, GPO4--even though they're supposed to work OK together.

"Bluesy Chalumeau Cha-Cha" came out pretty nicely--surprisingly less blippy, and I'm looking that over to see what I did differently. I saw that I used only a few solo samples. And to create clarinet, flute and trumpet sections, I assigned different plr and overlay instruments, and an occasional solo sample, in Aria to the same midi channels in groups of three--getting the most different sounds I can, all playing one staff. That seems to have worked well to create a diverse section.

For example, the trumpet staff is played by n-SAM Trumpet Plr 1 KS, n-Trumpet 1 Plr2, and Trumpet Overlay.

I'm also looking at some other scores in which I created a particularly lovely, rich velvety trumpet sound. In other scores, my trumpets are harsher, and fake-sounding. So I'm going over those scores, too, to see what I did.

Art
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Arthur J. Michaels
https://www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels
Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM
Windows 10 Home x64 SP 1
M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
M-Audio AV40 monitors
User avatar
gogreen
 
Posts: 109
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 12
Software Owned:
Finale 2000 to Finale 2014.5 (currently using 2014.5)
COMB2
GPO4, GPO5
Aria Player 1.860
Aria Engine 1.860

Re: Instrument differences

Postby rbowser » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:30 am

gogreen wrote:...Sure I have--most of the time. But in Finale, changes are triggered most often with expressions...


Ah - of course. Well, you know me - I'm a Hands On guy when it comes to making music. When there's a keyswitch there, I just wanna insert the note, trigger the KS note and get On with it! ;)

gogreen wrote:...I also wonder about using COMB2 instruments with, in my case, GPO4--even though they're supposed to work OK together...


That's not a problem, Art. I think my last several Garritan Christmas CD contributions have been enjoyed and been received without bad reviews, and they all have GPO and COMB nestled together. You can pretty much mix Any sound source with any other sound source. Sometimes there are adaptations to make in the way of volume, EQ, ambience - but when mixing GPO and COMB together, the only thing the user really needs to be aware of is that COMB is much quieter than GPO. You just have to keep its faders at the top, and GPOs much lower, and then you'll have a good starting balance for a mix.

gogreen wrote:...trumpet staff is played by n-SAM Trumpet Plr 1 KS, n-Trumpet 1 Plr2, and Trumpet Overlay...


Permit me to point out that you'd be better off with the actual soloists, rather than the players. It's one of my Garritan mantras really, but the Players, which are samples derived from the main solo instruments, are purposely much less realistic and generally more dull than the soloists. They were created to help users put together ensembles, but they weren't intended to be the main instruments in a mix. The reasons their sound is duller is for several reasons, mostly due to the fact that they're shorter samples with looping points that start earlier, and their attacks have been chopped off. They can fill in--they can't lead.

Randy
  • 0

Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
rbowser
 
Posts: 494
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 50
Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

Re: Instrument differences

Postby gogreen » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:15 pm

Thanks, randy. Ok, I can buy that--use solos as main instruments and plr ones as building ones. And so far in my testing, the group ks samples are much less choppy (blippy). I think part of my problem is how I've been using comb and building ensembles.
  • 0

Arthur J. Michaels
https://www.facebook.com/composerarthurjmichaels
Core i7 860 @ 2.80 GHz, 8.0 GB RAM
Windows 10 Home x64 SP 1
M-Audio Delta Audiophile 2496
M-Audio AV40 monitors
User avatar
gogreen
 
Posts: 109
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 12
Software Owned:
Finale 2000 to Finale 2014.5 (currently using 2014.5)
COMB2
GPO4, GPO5
Aria Player 1.860
Aria Engine 1.860

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