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Newbie question

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Newbie question

Postby sus4 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:48 am

I'm just on the verge of buying JABB and I want to know how easy or hard is it to use JABB.
When I create an arrangement in Sibelius 7, how do you get JABB to play it? I recently installed ARIA 1620. If someone can give me a brief explanation about the procedure I would appreciate it.
Thank you

sus4
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sus4
 
Posts: 73
Joined: January, 2014
Location: Boynton Beach, Fl.
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Software Owned:
Sibelius 7, Logic Express 9, JABB3

Re: Newbie question

Postby rbowser » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:04 am

Hello, Sus4

I started to look up information for you on that, but remembered it's contrary to the Forum's rules to post links to products made by other companies. What you need to do is in search for the pages that show how to use Sound Sets in that notation program. Once those are in place, then when you set up a score, you have the choice to use sound sources beyond the defaults.

I think that's about all I can say, but having just seen pages online with instructions, I know you could easily find them also and get JABB working for you. I'm sure the program's manual has a section on using Sound Sets also.

Randy
  • 0

Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
rbowser
 
Posts: 494
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 50
Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

Re: Newbie question

Postby sus4 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:13 pm

Well, I appreciate your position and I checked out the manual on Sibelius and JABB. They do give a lot of information, but what I'm looking to know is the degree of difficulty. I don't like for programs like this to have a high learning curve because you tend to get out of the creative mode. Although I don't mind delving into things, I kind of like "out of the box and play" as much as possible. So, knowing your bias towards JABB, can you give me an idea of the difficulty in getting JABB going?
Thanks again.
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sus4
 
Posts: 73
Joined: January, 2014
Location: Boynton Beach, Fl.
Reputation: 0
Software Owned:
Sibelius 7, Logic Express 9, JABB3

Re: Newbie question

Postby rbowser » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:05 pm

sus4 wrote:Well, I appreciate your position...


Hello again, Sus4 - It's not a position originating from me. I'm just following the posted rules and guidelines for using the Forum. Since this is a MakeMusic Forum, it's only reasonable that discussion and promotion of products from other companies doesn't make for appropriate topics. Just pointing out that I'm not calling the shots. I'm just another customer, like you, following the rules. But that's why, while I'm trying to help, I'm following the guidelines and not mentioning the name of the software you're working with.

sus4 wrote:...what I'm looking to know is the degree of difficulty. I don't like for programs like this to have a high learning curve because you tend to get out of the creative mode. Although I don't mind delving into things, I kind of like "out of the box and play" as much as possible. So, knowing your bias towards JABB, can you give me an idea of the difficulty in getting JABB going?...


Well. There's no way anyone would know what you would find difficult or easy - You're asking for answers that only you could really come up with on your own. That being said, I guess I would say that on my own scale of what I find easy or difficult, getting JABB or any Garritan Library (the process is the same for all of them) would maybe be a "3" on a scale of what I find difficult, on a scale of 1 to 10.

Pretty much every single musician/composer using a computer for working on music could sympathize with your desire to not get bogged down with learning software and dealing with technical issues. Like most people, I b i t ch and moan and break out in a sweat when faced with learning a new program, or a new program routine. But - Here's a general observation I've made over the years working with computers. Programs that are the easiest to use, with little need for the manual - which provide the instant gratification of being simple - are the least flexible and powerful programs. Software that has the most potential is just more arcane, isn't as "intuitive," Does require reading the manual, and simply takes time to learn. In other words, in my opinion, the best, most useful programs always have a bigger learning curve involved, and that's just the way it is.

What you do is learn what you need to get started, then as new things come up, you set aside time for learning a specific new routine, and then return to being creative with the software.

"Out of the box" programs, I'm saying, don't offer the user the best bang for the buck. They've simplified things too much, and the user is left with too few choices.

Your notation program has a fairly straight forward routine for adding additional sound sources like Garritan to the list of instruments. You just have to follow the steps in the manual. How difficult you'll find that to do is impossible to predict. It mostly depends on how much you rebel against having to do it in the first place, since the more frustration you bring to the task, the longer it will take you to figure out since you will have wasted energy being angry instead of just focusing on the job at hand.

I don't have a "bias" towards JABB - I use it and all the Garritan Libraries, yes, so obviously I'm happy with using them. For me, it hasn't been "difficult" to use them in either notation programs or Sonar, my DAW software where I most often work. How difficult it will be for you - there's only one way to find out!

Randy
  • 1

Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
rbowser
 
Posts: 494
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 50
Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

Re: Newbie question

Postby Michael.B » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:57 am

sus4 wrote: ..... what I'm looking to know is the degree of difficulty. ..... can you give me an idea of the difficulty in getting JABB going?
Thanks again.

Hello sus4,

Randy has given excellent replies permissable within these MakeMusic forums. There is nothing more I can add to what Randy has written. I would echo a couple of things though.

As Randy wrote, it's not really possible to give a degree of difficulty for using JaBB as what would be easy for one person might be difficult for another and impossible for some. For example, although I am now fairly confident at using JaBB, I would consider it to be more diffult to use than Randy as he is our expert and not just for JaBB but for Garritan Libraries.

sus4 wrote: ..... I don't like for programs like this to have a high learning curve because you tend to get out of the creative mode.

I can undertand how this might be for some but for me it was the exact opposite. I spent the best part of last year using JaBB for my track on our Christmas CD. As I went through various learning curves I began to discover just what the library is capable of. As I learnt about the various effects used by jazz musicians and how to apply them this increased my creativity.

sus4 wrote: ..... I kind of like "out of the box and play" as much as possible.

This is much easier to answer and, again, Randy covered this expertly. 'Out-of-the-box-and-play' just isn't going to happen with JaBB nor any Garritan library for a convincing recording. I echo Randy's reply regarding the drawbacks of using such software.

I was just wondering, and in a genuine desire to offer helpful suggestions, have you tried asking in the forums of your notation product? I am certain that there are experienced users of JaBB with your product who would be better placed to advise you. :)
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Michael.B
 
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Re: Newbie question

Postby sus4 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:49 am

Thanks for both of your responses. Being a user of programs for a long time I'm inclined to agree with you both of you and I appreciated it.

I have not asked in the Sibelius forums, but I will now.

Thanks again guys.

sus4
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sus4
 
Posts: 73
Joined: January, 2014
Location: Boynton Beach, Fl.
Reputation: 0
Software Owned:
Sibelius 7, Logic Express 9, JABB3

Re: Newbie question

Postby sus4 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:31 pm

I went on to a Sibelius forum and I was told that JABB was primarily made to run on a DAW. Although they said it will still sound good on Sibelius. So, what is the opinion out there? Do you guys run JABB on a DAW or Finale or Sibelius or both.
What is the best way, if there is a best way, to use JABB?

By the way, I just ordered JABB.

Looking forward to your answer(s).

Thanks again.
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sus4
 
Posts: 73
Joined: January, 2014
Location: Boynton Beach, Fl.
Reputation: 0
Software Owned:
Sibelius 7, Logic Express 9, JABB3

Re: Newbie question

Postby rbowser » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:15 am

Hello again, Sus4 - So far when I've referred to "your program" rather than its brand name, I guess the hint has been too subtle - One of the points we've been trying to gently make is that it's contrary to this Forum's Terms of Agreement to refer specifically to the names of programs from other companies. I've avoided using the name of the program you're using, hoping you'd get the hint, but in your new post, you've continued to use your program's name. I want to help, but I'm starting out by spelling it out - please stop using your program's name.

sus4 wrote:I went on to a forum and I was told that JABB was primarily made to run on a DAW...Do you guys run JABB on a DAW program or notation program, or both.What is the best way, if there is a best way, to use JABB?


Quite frankly, that's not unreasonable feedback you got, even though it's not perfectly accurate. JABB was "made to run" in both notation programs and DAW softwware - But, the best results are in DAW software, in my opinion.

That isn't a unique characteristic of JABB, however. No virtual instrument Library sounds its best without being actually played, the way a musician can do in a recording program/DAW software. In notation, the samples are being triggered, and power users can make the most out of the instruments by doing a lot of extra work, but the average notation user gets results that aren't quite as spectacular, because they're just having their scores trigger the samples. Human Playback helps a lot in Finale, but the MIDI Tool is really what's needed to get the most out of well programmed instruments like those in JABB -Unfortunately, the user can't use HP and the MIDI Tool at the same time.

Other notation programs have their own way of helping the user get a more natural sounding playback. But the simple fact is that nothing beats actually playing the instruments and using all of the MIDI Controllers available to make the samples come to life.

I've heard quite a few recordings made with JABB. In general, those made in notation programs tend to suffer from the "organ effect" which is caused by the quantization of notes inherent to scores triggering notes. Usually, there's also too little MIDI control, especially in the two big areas of truly dynamic volume control, and vibrato. Notation users tend to use only 6 levels of volume, whereas DAW software users have 127 levels available. Notation users tend to have volumes stay at the same level for measures and measures at a time, whereas an experienced DAW user will have the volume constantly fluctuating even in the course of one measure, since that's the nature of actual live, organically produced music. Vibrato is controlled by AfterTouch, and can be played in a DAW program just the way live musicians do. Most often, notation users neglect vibrato altogether, and when they do use it, it's mechanically off and on rather than swooping in and out the way vibrato is used in a live performance.

These problems of getting natural sounding results from any notation program are not inherent in JABB - As I said earlier, the same can be said for every single software instrument Library made. There's a big difference between the relatively few, stiff tools for notation users, and the complete, broad MIDI palette available to DAW users. Power users of notation programs get their superior results by doing a lot more work than the average user - their primary tool being to use hundreds of notations for a more expressive playback, and they hide all of those notations for the printed score, since they're only meant for playback and recording a decent demo.

In other words - Yes, JABB will sound best in a recording program. But that's also true of GPO and all the other Garritan Libraries.

Randy
  • 0

Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
rbowser
 
Posts: 494
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 50
Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

Re: Newbie question

Postby sus4 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:41 am

Hi Randy,

First let me apologize. I really thought that YOU were not supposed to use the name of the notation program not ME. In the future I will not use it.

Your explanation about the best way of using JABB is quite clear and thorough. I'm looking forward to receiving JABB and getting into using it. If I have any more questions I will post them here.

Thanks again.

Peter
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sus4
 
Posts: 73
Joined: January, 2014
Location: Boynton Beach, Fl.
Reputation: 0
Software Owned:
Sibelius 7, Logic Express 9, JABB3

Re: Newbie question

Postby rbowser » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:48 am

sus4 wrote:Hi Randy,

First let me apologize. I really thought that YOU were not supposed to use the name of the notation program not ME. In the future I will not use it.

Your explanation about the best way of using JABB is quite clear and thorough. I'm looking forward to receiving JABB and getting into using it. If I have any more questions I will post them here.

Thanks again.

Peter


Everything's cool, Peter! The same rules apply to both of us, because we're both the same - "just" Forum members. I'm not on MM's staff - I'm just an interested, involved Garritan user.

Glad you have JABB coming your way. I distinctly remember when I first got it. Exciting!

Randy
  • 0

Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
rbowser
 
Posts: 494
Joined: December, 2013
Reputation: 50
Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

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