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GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Want

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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby David R » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:30 pm

1) Ditch Instant Orchestra trying to make a quick buck.
2) Put GPO and IO together and you have something you are looking at which is useable.
3) The choirs are dreadful.
4) I was pretty disappointed with GPO4 when I got as for the £80 I can get the Cubase Orchestral sounds which can cope with vstsoundmaps eg trills, trems, sforzando (which SFZ is an abbreviation). GPO4 was £40 more than that and you cant use trills, trems, articulations etc.... unless you have Instant Orchestra. That is two bites at the same cherry. eg you are charging twice! tut tut
5) The vstsoundmaps that are meant to go with this don't work in Cubase. If you can better the Cubase version you get my vote! note Cubase has no harps you do!
6) Make a manual that shows the user how to use soundfonts properly. On Amazon someone is selling the Garritan 4 manual for nearly £80! the same one you get with the product and lulu.com. This confusion only adds to scammers out there prying on those not in the know!
7) No ensembles as far as I can see in this version even though I have tried to look for the aria files. In the Pipe Organs you have the various ensembles when you right click.
8) Multi-lingual version - stops UK Amazon offloading the French version which surprise of surprise is in English!
I am not a fan of the SFZ format but hey ho what every gets your goat!
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby Eric Labrie » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:29 am

Thanks Gary for carring and asking us.

1- A Taiko Library. there is not so much of them on the market and it's a must have Library with modern movie and game demand (just look at Zimmer tracks, for exemple).

2 - A steel plate percs sound, which is also a must have in all those epic scores (think of the LOTR's Isengard Theme soundtrack)

3 - More articulations for strings and a better overall quality

4 - Maybe a more easy to implement Portamento fonction, slide and other subtle articulations

5 - Keep asking us, this is what make your product so awesome. I would like to see more composer working with your product in movie and game score
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby MusicalHart24 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:53 am

What I'd Like To See In Garritan Personal Orchestra 5

Instruments

Brass:
1. Cimbasso
2. Euphonium

Percussion:
1. Field Drums
2. Concert Toms
3. Roto Toms
4. Taiko Ensemble (instead of individual drums)
5. Chinese Cymbals
6. Ride Cymbals
7. Splash Cymbals
8. More Gong & Other Cymbal Varieties
9. Percussion Toys
a. Anvils
b. Waterphone
10. Thunder Sheets


Features/Articulations

Woodwinds & Brass:
1. Free Controllable Vibrato (not KS, ability to adjust speed/depth)
2. Staccato/Marcato (can be KS)
3. Flutter Tongue (for all possible instruments)
4. Realistic Dynamic Controls (mod wheel controls amount of breath, not just volume/timbre. Pianissimo should sound soft and not just lower in volume. Fortissimo should sound intense and not just louder in volume. Fortississimo, in brass especially, should sound like “blasting” and not just super loud. *Obviously, velocity would control note attack. It would be great to start a note attack soft, and then use the mod wheel to crescendo and increase intensity*)
5. Realistic Slurs (not just legato/Garritan legato, nor monophonic sounding)
6. Falls & Rips
7. More Special Effects

Strings:
1. Free Controllable Vibrato (not KS, ability to adjust speed/depth)
2. Free Controllable Tremolo (ability to adjust tremolo speed)
3. Staccato/Marcato/Spiccato, Col Legno, Slaps/Snaps (all can be KS)
4. Realistic Slurs (not just legato/Garritan legato, nor monophonic sounding)
5. Realistic Note Slides (kinda like falls & rips, and not just pitch bend)
6. Sustained Alternate Bowing/Bow Change (like the Solo KS instruments 'Auto Alternate'. They're not short bows, but sustained, alternating between up bow and down bow to give more of a realistic playing sound)
7. Realistic Dynamic Controls (mod wheel controls amount of bow pressure, not just volume/timbre. Pianissimo should sound soft/light and not just lower in volume. Fortissimo should sound intense/heavy and not just louder in volume. *Obviously, velocity would control note attack. It would be great to start a note attack soft, and then use the mod wheel to crescendo and increase intensity*)
8. More Special Effects

Percussion:
1. Free Controllable Rolls (ability to adjust speed)
2. Special Effects (scrapes, brushes, etc.)


Aria Player Features

1. Instrument/Multi Browser (no drop-down menus)
2. More Reverb Presets
3. Add More Channels (use banks, 16 channels per bank. 4 banks = 64 channels, per instance. *See MOTU Symphonic Instrument*)
4. Mic Position & Mixer (instead of current Stereo Stage. This would work along side the reverb. Close mics would have low reverb volume. Stage/Mid mics would have medium reverb volume. Surround/Far mics would have a higher reverb volume. A reverb level/knob on the reverb panel/mixer would still be used to control reverb amount. *Kinda like the CFX Concert Grand Library's Mic Perspectives*)
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby SysExJohn » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:49 am

Can't let this go without comment:

It seems that some of the last few requests are getting slightly unrealistic.
I think for most people the prime criterion is to keep the price reasonable.
After all, I can get most of what has been asked for recently in libraries that cost anything from three to ten times the prices of GPO4. Is it possible to do all that's been asked for a sensible price? I think not!

Trills and tremolos are all easily programmable in MIDI and ... I get to choose whether it's a baroque or romantic trill and ... I can start slowly and speed up just as I need. I program most of mine in in piano roll view ... easy, peasy!
Any half good notation program will allow the creation of string tremolos at the speed you require.

How many different drum rolls do you want? I can program them in by using two fingers on a keyboard exactly as I want, then edit the results in MIDI and get results that sound pretty realistic.

Greater variation of loudness would be nice, but I know that it means that every note must have typically three samples to cross fade between. That means greater complexity in the sfz file and, most importantly, the sample library increases in size by three times. One of the things I appreciate is the light footprint of GPO and, once again, the reasonable cost.

Lots of extra articulations would require a greatly expanded library at greater cost and size again. More if you want multi-samples per note.

If I want special reverbs then the simple addition of a separate convolution reverb will solve the problem. Use a half competent DAW, bounce the MIDI to audio and mix the results with a stand alone reverb. Try SIR1 or SIR2. Try Zynwave Podium which comes with its own reverb as do many DAWs.

The flute has a flutter tongue key switch.
Have you tried playing flutter tongue on a reed instrument?

Strings? Well yes, I've already commented upon that in an earlier post.
But I'd be quite prepared to fork out another 129 dollars for a quality strings only library.

GPO and IO offer distinctly different approaches. I'd hate to have them combined.
Frankly, I can't see the rip off here.
Try combining a solo violin with either first or second strings with variations in timing, velocity and expression. Do the same with any either solo string and section. The effect can be magical.

There are no easy solutions to portamento, you have to learn to program it.

And that's the great thing about GPO, for the price it's an amazing product, when you've learnt how to use it. It can't do everything that e.g. the Vienna library can do but then it doesn't cost thousands needing terrabytes of disk space to accommodate.

Mark you, to do all this requires a moderate knowledge of MIDI programming and some trial and error.

As usual it's just my two cents worth! ;-)
Regards,
John.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby MusicalHart24 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:54 pm

*Note. I'm not trying to sound rude or agitated. I apologize in advance if it seems that way.*

Well, Gary Garritan said to share ideas, no matter how outlandish they sound. So, I'm sharing what I think.

Nothing is unrealistic, unless you never try. As far as tremolos and drum rolls, it's just ideas. GIO drums offer two different drum roll KS. Why should we have that then? There are some people who don't have patience to always take time to program every little detail. I'm not one of these people. I'm just thinking about convenience for others.

If we're worried about cost and complexity, they could always release extension packs of the library, sold separately. That way customers can pick and choose what they feel they need. Some other companies do this. I'm not saying to be like other companies, either.

The reverb was a suggestion. You don't have to use it. There are some people who can't afford to use 3rd party reverb.

Yes, I've tried flute flutter tongue. But, I would like some brass flutter tongue. Not growl from GJBB.

I wasn't talking about combining GPO and GIO. Another user said that.

I do use solo/section combinations. However, the ability to control vibrato with the solo strings would be nice. Section strings don't have it, and it is weird when you combine vibrato solo with non-vibrato section. Some people like to combine all solo violin instruments together. If you do this with GPO4, you get odd vibrato sounds from the different solo strings. Not sexy.

When I try to use portamento with legato/sustain pedal, and even length, I get no results until Port is above 60%. When it is above 60%, it sounds more like pitch bend. Maybe you can share your secrets to this issue. And, yes, I have experimented with most possible combinations that I can think of.

There's always other ways to program SFZ files as well. I've been making some of my own that actually enhances GPO4 instruments. When I get done, maybe I'll post samples of my work with my SFZ programming.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby SysExJohn » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:56 am

Hi Christopher,

No I didn't take your post as being either rude or agitated, far from it. It was an earlier post by another that seemed rather critical.

Please note that I made no ad hominem attacks, and a did say also "last few requests", so I wasn't specifically picking out any one post.

An earlier request to combine IP with GPO was one of my criticisms as an idea. The idea that was mooted that MakeMusic was somehow prohibited from making money on an easy orchestra set I found difficult to understand. After all how is the company expected to stay afloat if it can't release products and charge for them? Maybe it had had many requests for just such a library, who knows? But that wasn't you Christopher. I know a few who use IO and not GPO so it certainly suits some people. Although I have it, I hardly use it.

All I'm requesting is a little realism.

IO really is a convenience library for those who don't want to take the time to set up as in GPO. At least IMHO.

As far as I'm concerned there is no fixed way that tremolo or snare/timpani rolls can be added. They depend so much on other factors mainly tempo, but also they may be accelerando or rallentando, may need emphasised drum hits, etc., etc. that fixed ones are just a fudge.
IMHO.

Maybe a few MIDI files as per harp gliss might help?

We have to remember that Gary was one of the first, if not the first, to provide an orchestral library at anything like a sensible price. And a very workable library too. I personally like the fact that it's sfz based. It makes it straight forward to modify. I'd rather Plogue extended the sfz command set, if necessary, to do things it maybe currently can't do. I applaud your efforts to modify the sfz files.

Yes, there certainly are some faults with GPO4. I was one of the early contributors to this thread to request controllable vibrato on the strings, but many, many others have done so too. A major emission in my view. It's the view of many I've spoken to that it would have been a great idea to port some of the earlier, Kontakt based Garritan strings over to ARIA.

In my view, and it is only my personal opinion, I'd rather see a few more instruments from the baroque period and earlier added, as I'd previously stated.

But for me, trying to live on a pension, I'd rather have a small footprint piece of software at a reasonable price (I'm still running on XP and don't expect to have the resources to upgrade any time in the near future).

I do agree wholeheartedly with your idea of upgrades. I've posted that opinion before some time back. They did this with the Steinway that they used to sell. Unfortunately, much to my dismay, they withdrew the upgrade before I had the chance to buy it!

I think the fact that the convolution reverb was added later is great. I do agree that more 'spaces' would be useful. But rather than add a fully blown reverb to the product, probably pushing up the price, I'd rather purchase that separately. I'd much prefer that Garritan focussed on its mainstream of producing good quality, reasonable cost sample libraries.

Have you tried looking at the ariap impulse files at all? It may be that additional files can be added. Try doing an import raw file in Audacity.

I'll try to dig out a MIDI file with portamento for you.

Yes, I'm so pleased that a few people are getting to grips with the sfz format.
It's probably more appropriate to exchange views on this the Plogue ARIA forum? :?:
Or in PMs maybe. I hope you caught my post correcting the Oboe d'Amore sfz file?

Kind regards,
John.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby DavidinTexas » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:22 am

Hi John,
I wholeheartedly agree with you "the great thing about GPO, for the price it's an amazing product".
I'm hoping that my earlier rant about the volume issue was deleted quickly enough that you didn't read it, but if not, i apologize for my ignorance and lack of understanding.
Thank you so much for this great forum!
David
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby SysExJohn » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:41 pm

Hi David,

I'm not the admin you know, just an enthusiastic user of Garriatn products.
John.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby DavidinTexas » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Okay, i thought you were the admin. Nevertheless, my apology stands :-)
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby SysExJohn » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:16 am

I guess I should change my signature then to "author of" MIDI tutorials.

Re-reading my last post I wonder what "Garriatn (sic) products" are.

My father always taught me never to apologise too much.
"Once is enough!" he would say. ;-)

Regards,
John.
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