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GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Want

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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby DavidinTexas » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:32 pm

Point well taken, author of MIDI tutorials.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby Credo » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:58 pm

At this point I say...just focus on what matters the most. Gradually increase the existing sample set with more articulation styles. Keep fine tuning what is already there, as to 'my ears' there are a few individual samples (or small ranges in some instruments) that could use improvement (or tweaking characteristic variations through round robin sample layering, or more synthesis/filtering options). I don't think every single note of every single patch needs 18 layers of complicated cross fading round robin sampling....just cherry pick the ranges most used and most sensitive to human hearing, and do the extra layers in the spots where things get a little thin or robotic sounding.

As mentioned earlier....a solo violin where the user can control vibrato would be nice. (if it's already there....sorry, I missed it but will look again next time I need it).

A few more of the most basic bowing styles would be nice. I'm pretty sure it's already been covered in earlier posts...but alternating sustained bowing, and a little more variety in marcato string styles would be awesome (so far I'm having to play tricks to build my own marcato string phrases with sustained bowing and a myrid of ongoing controller movements...sometimes even layered with the short up/down bow patches on a duplicate track).

Make that Ultimate Collection deal available more often. I'm really glad I just got the entire collection all at once....it gives quite a pallet to work with for a very fair price! It's really nice to be able to mix and match brass and wind sections from the various libraries!

From Aria Player, I'd like to see Plogue add the ability to toggle the mute buttons of the Aria Mixer (in a way that totally disables the instrument when not in use) via MIDI remote. While it's a small thing that isn't really needed when working from a DAW, it could be quite helpful for those using Aria to compliment other instruments in 'live playing' situations.

David R wrote:
4) I was pretty disappointed with GPO4 when I got as for the £80 I can get the Cubase Orchestral sounds which can cope with vstsoundmaps eg trills, trems, sforzando (which SFZ is an abbreviation). GPO4 was £40 more than that and you cant use trills, trems, articulations etc.... unless you have Instant Orchestra. That is two bites at the same cherry. eg you are charging twice! tut tut


David, I don't mean to come across as attacking you or being 'condescending', but you apparently spent your hard earned money on GPO4, so I'd like to encourage you to experiment a bit more with it. The refinements and new features you requested are all great ideas that anyone in their right mind would support if it doesn't jack the price up too much, but....

I could be wrong, but it seems like maybe you've not spent much time exploring the possibilities provided by GPO4 through key switches, track layering, and MIDI CC messages? It's a more powerful library than your list implies.

I don't have the Halion Symphonic Orchestra set yet, nor have I grabbed the demo yet, but I must confess that the integration into CuBase looks very appealing; enough that I'm currently evaluating and nearly drooling to upgrade to Halion 5 for rolling my own sounds. IF ONLY there were more pre-made libraries available for that engine I'd have already ordered it some time ago :)

I've no problem building my own expression maps in CuBase 8 Pro for GPO4. While Aria doesn't support VST3 note by note expressions (since it's a VST2 plugin...that relies on MIDI spec protocols rather than a brand new and still quite Steinberg/Yamaha specific VST3 protocol [which expands quite a bit beyond what general midi can do to 'individual notes on the same channel']), GPO4 is still a good 'no dongle required' value for the money that integrates very well/easily into ANY product that accepts VST2 plugins. It DOES have some pretty effective and customizable 'tremolo string' options (some are hidden controllers, so read the manual). Building a trill, or a sforzano attack with GPO4 isn't very hard to do at all. The 'elements' are there to build just about anything one would need barring very experienced string arrangers who would like access to every bow style there is (which will require MUCH more expensive and difficult to use libraries).

MORE articulation styles are always welcome......I'll agree %200 on that count, but in this price range I've yet to see anything 'on its own' that terribly outclasses GPO4 'on its own'. By 'on its own', I mean without supplementing with other fx plugins, special proprietary software, and supplemental sounds or libraries.

If I need to get detailed with stuff on a 'note by note basis' that is done in Aria/sforzano through 'channel' controllers, I just work with monophonic tracks, and at that point it's no different than working with the few ultra rare full fledged VST3 'CuBase Integrated' plugins out there; however, the expression maps offered via CuBase are powerful in that you can build your own expression maps that will work with different 'channels' for instruments hosted by Aria/sforzando in the same editor and integrate almost as seamlessly as a true VST3 plugin. If you really want...you can work in a polyphonic mode with an editor and have your markings/articulations/dynamics tagged with the appropriate channel and/or controller data and get similar results as you can with a dedicated VST3 instrument like Steinberg's Orchestra Set. The 'first' time you use that articulation...you'll build it by hand...but you can enter that same controller information into your maps, and even assign score symbols/abbreviations if you like, and from then on you can just drag it in the arrangement where you like, just as you would a VST3 instrument that comes with ready made maps. (See the chapters on "Note Expression" and "Expression Maps" in the CuBase manuals).

Many of the VST3 specific features you're talking about are 'Nuendo/CuBase Only' at this time. People who are not using CuBase 7.5 or later won't see the 'individual note expression' benefits we've described. If a Sonar or Reaper user installs the Steinberg Orchestra set at this time...it'll most likely be in VST2 mode, and they'll have to make their own expression maps or just work with channel controller lanes just the same as we do with GPO4. Also, getting the Aria Engine to become a VST3 plugin is something we probably need to take to Plogue to make happen? I'm not sure they'll go for it until companies besides Steinberg/Yamaha are more fully implementing support for the newer protocols required to make that work. They'll all eventually get around to it...but alot of what's going on in VST3+ plugins right now is still pretty cutting edge and Nuendo/CuBase/Halion specific.

As for IO....that library is built from the ground up for a totally different compositional/production style. You can use the elements of GPO4 to 'build' for yourself much of what is packed into IO as a 'one key' mood or effect. If you need quick textures and effects, and don't care much about voicings and precise note by note 'arrangements', then the IO set is worth every penny...as it could take you months to 'build' the effects it offers. Best of all, it just gives you a pretty big pallet of 'rompler style' orchestral textures and effects to 'browse' for 'inspiration'. Again...it would take months to build all those instant effects up with your own arrangements. While not everyone needs such a library, it no doubt took alot of design, development, and labor to put it together...maybe even more than the GPO4 library did if you also factor in things borrowed from other Garritan projects.

Where GPO4 was initially more intended as a bread and butter pallet of sounds for 'scoring packages' like Finale and Sibelius that can handle different expressions through massive xml tables (people who diligently arrange every aspect of their music for live performers or academic standard archives)...IO is more geared to pop, dance, film and game scoring, etc, where individual voicings and fine details aren't so important......but quickly syncing up some cool effects, moods, or melodies to some film/video, meta-verse/game triggers, or throwing some orchestra hits into a hip hop track make all the sense in the world.

Once you get to know the instrument and start arranging with its limitations in mind, GPO4 is amazing with a DAW, as you can get in there and make it really realistic sounding with the fine details....but YOU have to do the work yourself by editing your velocities, after touch, and midi controller values. You might find people who are willing to share drag and drop expression maps they've accumulated for their DAW of choice....but when it comes to high resolution MIDI sequencers featuring 4 to 6 different types of specialized MIDI editors, and the DAWs that are often built around such sequencing engines, it's really not difficult at all to simply start your own collection of articulations, dynamics, and specialized score markings from scratch (or just work directly with controller lanes and virtual mixing desks).

If you get into something like Finale or Sibelius, you'll find that extensive expression maps are available for use with GPO4 that give you a pretty big supply of 'static dynamics and articulations' to choose from that are saved up in the form of markings that you drop on the virtual score, and you can always tweak and add to those maps, and exchange them with others in your respective score package communities. The price for going with this kind of software is that it's alot more difficult to be realistically expressive with phrases so that each and every note is 'not so perfect' and has a character of its own. If you're doing beautiful scores with elaborately detailed arrangements...you probably intend to have a REAL orchestra perform it anyway, and the fact that while composing you can have WYSIWYG along side WYHIWYG auditioning of your ideas to some degree is simply gravy ;)

On SoundFonts and personal SFZ tweaking...
Check out the Plogue.com site for information on rolling and tweaking your own sounds for Aria. Many of us quietly tweak our Garritan sounds by hand...but we can't expect full technical support on every little hick-up if we go mucking about with the libraries. There are some free sfz editors out there for building up your initial regions and zones. If you really want to understand how sfz works, and get familiar with the various opcodes, then there's an inexpensive book available for all the CakeWalk/Roland vst synths/samplers to get you started. I purchased a copy from here: http://www.amazon.com/Cakewalk-Synthesi ... +dimension

Plogue offers info on the opcodes supported by Aria, as well as their own that are specific to the Aria engine. There are also a few places where you can find raw lists of the opcodes for free (but they don't go into any detail on what they each do).
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby brsmith » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:33 am

Gary,

There is a large movement of flute choirs in the USA. We need Contra'alto flute in G, Contra Bass Flute in C, Subcontrabass flute in G.

Check out the Columbia Flute Choir on Youtube.

Thanks

Bruce Smith
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby SysExJohn » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:46 am

Hi Bruce,

From what we believe, there's not much point posting anything to Gary here.
Rumours have it that Gary left MakeMusic late last year.
We're still waiting to hear what career direction he has taken.
I think we all sincerely hope he hasn't given up on virtual instrument libraries.
But the former Garritan company is now owned by MakeMusic, together with all the current libraries.

John.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby greyfox73 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:24 am

You know John, the silence in ominous. There used to be long stretches when we wouldn't hear from Gary back on the Northern Sounds site, but somehow this is worse. I hope I'm not reading too much into the silence, but many of us have been loyal followers since GPO1. That was my first big library. I sure would like to know that Gary is OK and that he will continue with his incredible ideas. It does make one wonder what the future of GPO5 is going to be or if there will be one now. It's the not knowing that makes this hard. And all we can do is wait. Sigh.

Gary A.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby KMFrye » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:47 pm

I wonder if his PM still works....
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby dimitris » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:43 am

Hello everyone.

This is my first post here.
I really waited to hear about a new GPO, because i am in a search for a complete orchestral library for a while.

I hope that GPO5 will try to reach the other expensive libraries in sound quality.
We all know that the standards now are really high in realism.
If it will be just an upgrade of more articulations and minor improvements, the main target group will be only the GPO4 owners.

I will prefer to pay 50-100$ more, if it's for a library closer to the industry standards.

Regards,

Dimitris
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby SysExJohn » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:20 am

Indeed Gary, the silence tells a story, to me at least.

It tells me that the new organisation probably has little interest in the sample libraries side of the business. Nonetheless I could be wrong, I sincerely hope that I am.

I dare say that it costs a lot to invest in creating a world class sample library from scratch, and I suspect the funds are just not there for such an investment, even if the company still has the skilled employees after such a move of premises. It's not just the recording phase, which I understand has been carried out at the Abbey Road studios, (I believe it was done following the new piano recording process) but the huge amount of further processing creating the sfz files and working on the samples themselves.

Even if they are actively working on the GPO5 project, I wouldn't expect it to see the light of day this year (2015). And without Gary's driving force ... ?

Dimitris, I don't think this company will try to bring out a product that competes with e.g. Vienna. It's as an add on to Finale. It is its small footprint and reasonable cost that made GPO4 so good. If you want world class, expect to spend 500 to 1000$ more. It takes thousands of hours of recording, editing samples and writing code to create the likes of Vienna.

It's only my 2 cents worth!
Regards,
John.
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby Sina » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:42 am

Hi there,

Just wondering if there is still going to be a new version of Garritan Personal Orchestra? Or is the project canceled?
Please provide some update regarding GPO.

Thanks
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Re: GPO5 - Tell Me What you Want, What You Really Really Wan

Postby greyfox73 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:15 pm

That's a good question. Since Gary Garritan is no longer with Make Music and none of us have heard anything from him in a very long time (DO YOU HEAR THAT GARY?!?), it's become quite the mystery. We do know his wife has had health problems though it's hard to say if that has anything to do with his decision to leave the company. In any case, I'm assuming Make Music still owns the rights to the Garritan libraries and any future development, so who knows what the future may bring. We can only speculate and hope for some response from someone.

Gary A.
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