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Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

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Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby Richard John S » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:46 am

I have a quick question in regards to posting compositions. I work with a lot of different instrument libraries, Garritan, Vienna, Dimension Pro, etc... Are we only allowed to share our work that only has 100% Garritan Instruments or can we share pieces that use other libraries but with Garritan products included in the compositions?
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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby efiebke » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:55 pm

I'm also interested in knowing what's appropriate for this new forum, too. Although I use Garritan libraries intensively, they are mixed with other orchestral libraries. (I consider this capability one of the strong points for the Garritan libraries that I use.) If/when I might share music here, I want to do so according to the wishes of the company housing these forums. :)
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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby Michael.B » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:37 am

Hello effiebke and John,

Well .. here is a quote from the MakeMusic Forum Policy:

[Quote]
Types of incidents that may warrant a thread to be edited and or locked include, but are not limited to:
• Posting advertisements or solicitation for outside products.
[Unquote]


My understanding of the above is that posting anything that includes products other than those of MakeMusic is not permitted.

My own view is, and I express this view with the greatest respect, is that our MakeMusic Garritan Forums now should be purely for their products. There are other forums where people can freely post other products, including the original Garritan forums at Northern Sounds. Plenty of popportunity there.

I'm thinking of a possible situation of someone posting in our own Finale Forums of a work that had input from 'Sibelius' or 'Notation', for example. Other scenarios include someone posting an image in the PhotoShop Forums which had involved PaintShop Pro in it's making, of a posting in the Cubase Forums of a track that had involved Sonar. I doubt the reaction would be too favourable in those forums and understandably so.

In his original Northern Sounds forums Gary did say that outside products could be mixed in as long as it was predominantly Garritan sounds. Sadly, yet predictably, this was abused. I recall one recording that had a Garritan Viola 'quietly in the background' whilst the rest was all ........ library. This was not an isolated example. There were repeated attempts to post non-garritan sounds. I recall a number of times when Dan challenged posters only to be berated by some forum members.

I would also mention the 'Garritan Christmas CD' which, I'm sure we all realise, must be MakeMusic/Garritan only. This is entirely understandable and, I believe, accepted by most. I do feel that these new Garritan/Make Music Forums should be the same.

As mentioned at the top, there are now plenty of opportunities for mentioning or posting of outside products in the 'original' Northern Sounds Garritan forums.

Purely my own views and with the greatest of respect to everyone. :)
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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby efiebke » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:01 am

I agree with you. I certainly respect that these are product-focused forums. It just needs to be spelled out in the website's "Terms of Service". I used to be a co-administrator for a nursing web-site (which now has over 600,000 members and growing). An important function was to work with the other moderators and administrators to review the site's "Terms of Service" and keep it up to date and relevant. During the process of "policing" the web-site, we always referred to the site's "Terms of Service" to help keep the peace. I know that it may seem "obvious", but I hope that the moderators/administrators here will include a simple statement reflecting their wishes to what instrumental libraries are to be used when members show-case original music. There should be no ambiguity; there should be no questions in anyone's mind. As a nurse, I'm forced to think this way every time I chart on a patient's record, sadly enough. It's all about the legal obligations of crossing the "I's" and dotting the "T's" (or something like that! LOL). More importantly, though, it's also about good communication. (In the world of healthcare, poor communication can be lethal.)

Most of us have more than one instrumental library. In my modest 50+ orchestral templet, I use a combination of 5 or 6 different software libraries. (To be clear, a majority used are Garritan products.) I don't even think "I'll use a flute from the GPO library" because I'm sequencing from a long-established templet. (By the way, my "solo flute" is either from the GPO or JABB libraries, along with most solo wood-winds, solo brass, solo strings and most percussion instruments.) It shouldn't be too hard to create another templet that is 100% Garritan products. For me, though, it will mean sequencing an original composition twice. I'm lucky if I complete two projects a year.

Peace :)

Ted
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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby Michael.B » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:21 am

Ahhhhha .. Hello Ted,

I thought I recognised your forum name from the other forums.

It's great to see you in the new forums. :D
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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby rbowser » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:52 am

It's an excellent question, Richard. Glad you brought it up.

efiebke wrote:...It just needs to be spelled out in the website's "Terms of Service"...


That's exactly right, Ted. The issue about whether or not non-Garritan instruments can be included in posted music isn't currently directly addressed. As Michael points out, we have this statement:
Michael.B wrote:...Types of incidents that may warrant a thread to be edited and or locked include, but are not limited to:
• Posting advertisements or solicitation for outside products.


But that doesn't specifically address the question about using other Libraries. Maybe that policy statement means that using and identifying instruments from other companies would be considered "advertisement" or a "solicitation" - but it doesn't specifically say that. We just need it spelled out.

Michael.B wrote:...In his original Northern Sounds forums Gary did say that outside products could be mixed in as long as it was predominantly Garritan sounds. Sadly, yet predictably, this was abused. I recall one recording that had a Garritan Viola 'quietly in the background' whilst the rest was all ........ library. This was not an isolated example. There were repeated attempts to post non-garritan sounds. I recall a number of times when Dan challenged posters only to be berated by some forum members...


Right, and then after Gary left, and the Forum's traffic had slowed down to a crawl, as a group we decided to loosen up the posting rules so we could get more participation again. I think that worked out fairly well, because traffic did increase again with more music posts and more responses being posted. The part that didn't quite work out so well is that people don't always follow the request that when 3rd party instruments are used, that they be clearly identified in the opening paragraph so listeners aren't confused about what they're hearing.

I'm thinking that since this new MM Forum is primarily for MM and Garritan promotion, that the company expects any music posted to be examples of using their products. It seems logical. But, as I said, I think it's great that Richard has joined in here and asked the direct question, since he needs to have a definitive answer, as do many other people.

SO - hopefully we'll get a response spelling it out for us.

Randy
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Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby Fred @ MakeMusic » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:12 pm

Hey all-

Profoundly sorry it took so long to answer the post!

On balance, I do think it's OK to post a piece of music that involves other libraries as well as Garritan libraries. Of course we want to avoid the "vague viola in the background" syndrome and be as fair as possible to all involved. Here's a quick set of guidelines for posting material that mixes Garritan and non-Garritan libraries:

1) Please use discretion when posting. We would like any piece to predominantly feature Garritan libraries.
2) It's appropriate to inform in your post that other libraries were used to create the piece if you would like. However, libraries from competitive manufacturers should not be mentioned specifically by name or alluded to in the post.
3) As a listener, if you would like to know more about non Garritan content in a piece, we just ask that you direct the question to the composer via private message.

MakeMusic inc. reserves the editorial right to remove any posts we feel violate the above guidelines.

I'll post these as a "sticky" subject at the Media Room also.

Cheers

Fred
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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby Richard John S » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:33 pm

Thanks Fred for clarifying that.
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Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby rbowser » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:05 pm

Fred @ MakeMusic wrote:...It's appropriate to inform in your post that other libraries were used to create the piece if you would like...

Very good, Fred - Thanks for the post and the guidelines sticky post in the Media Room. It will be helpful to everyone.

I pulled out the above quote because I have a suggestion. Based on what we're still doing at the NS Forum, when a posted piece of music also includes some non-Garritan instruments, we point that out in the opening post so there's no confusion. At that Forum, we list exactly what the other party instruments are, and I understand we don't want to do that here - but I think it would still help avoid confusion if it's stated that other things were used. Otherwise people could possibly think, "Hey--that doesn't sound like MY cello--what's going on?" In other words, I feel that if other sound sources are used, that should always be mentioned, but without being specific as to what they were.

If it doesn't become a policy, I can guarantee you that I'll be on every thread asking, "Could you please tell us if non-Garritan instruments were used?"-- To avoid the need for that song and dance would be helpful.

Randy
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Garritan Organs demos of all 75 stops

"Dorian Gray"

Hardware:

Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller
Alesis i|O2 interface
Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz
8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64
with dual monitors
User avatar
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Software Owned:
ARIA Player v1.626
ARIA Engine 1.665
GPO4
JABB 3
COMB 2
Instant Orchestra
Garritan World
Garritan Classic Pipe Organs
Garritan Harps
Garritan Authorized Steinway
Garritan Stradivari solo violin
Garritan Gofriller solo cello

Sundry soft synths:
Dimension Pro, EZDrummer, over 50 others

Sonar 8.5 (have but don't use Sonar X1)
Sony Sound Forge 10
Sibelius 7

Video editing: Cyberlink Power Director 11

Re: Forum Policy and Mixing Libraries

Postby Michael.B » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:47 am

rbowser wrote: ..... but I think it would still help avoid confusion if it's stated that other things were used. Otherwise people could possibly think, "Hey--that doesn't sound like MY cello--what's going on?" In other words, I feel that if other sound sources are used, that should always be mentioned, but without being specific as to what they were.

If it doesn't become a policy, I can guarantee you that I'll be on every thread asking, "Could you please tell us if non-Garritan instruments were used?"-- To avoid the need for that song and dance would be helpful.

Randy

Hello Randy,

I so agree with this Randy.

Fred, it is really important for those of us responding to music posted that we know if non Garritan instruments are used.

Like Randy, I agree that this should be stated at the top of the post as this will 'inform' our listening. If there is nothing mentioned I too, like Randy, will find myself asking in every post if non-Garritan instruments are used.

This could become a bit of a bind eventually.
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