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Guitar tab performance instructions

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Re: Guitar tab performance instructions

Postby Mogens Lundholm » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:21 am

Hello Snake and all

Thanks for your good comment. What do the originators of Music XML think about adding such stuff as properties to a note definition? Advantage: Works with existing programs MuseScore and Finale (ignored - a warning comes in Finale). May be expanded with all symbols listed in GuitarNotationLegend.

<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" palm-mute="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" let-ring="yes">

or with "guitar prefix" <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-palm-mute="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-let-ring="yes">

This could be easily expanded with the symbols in GuitarNotationLegend:
(put on the first note, "tie"-defines the other note)

Bend to next note (note pitch decides the step): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" bend="yes">

Grace Note Bend: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" grace-note-bend="yes">

Slight: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" slight="yes">

Bend and Release: (The first note have "bend", the next "release") <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" release="yes">

Prebend: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" prebend="yes">

Unison Bend: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" unison-bend="yes">

<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50" vibrato-wide="no">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="4,100" vibrato-wide="yes">
- Numbers for the player, yes or no for the note-sheet

Hammer On <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" hammer-on="yes">

Pull-off <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" pull-off="yes">

Legato Slide <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" legato-slide="yes">

Shift Slide <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" shift-slide="yes">

Trill (5 times 100% of halfnote) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" trill="5,100">

Tapping <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" tapping="yes">

Natural Harmonic (The number is the division = here half of the string length) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" natural-harmonic="2">

Pinch Harmonic (The number is the division = here half of the string length) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" pinch-harmonic="2">

Harp Harmonic (The number is the division = here half of the string length) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" harp-harmonic="2">

Pick Scrape (500% of halfnote = 5 steps) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" pick-scrape="500">

Muffled Strings (applied on all the notes involved) ("strings" or
"string"?) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" muffled-strings="yes">

Palm Mute (applied on all notes involved) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" palm-mute="yes">

Rake (tie defines how long) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" rake="yes">

Tremolo Picking (Here picked 9 times) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" tremolo-picking="9">

Arpeggiate (Number of rolls) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" arpeggiate="4">

Vibrato Bar Drive (The note pitch defines the step) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato-bar-drive="yes">

Vibrato Bar Scoop (The note pitch defines the step) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato-bar-scoop="yes">

Vibrato Bar Dip (100% of half step) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato-bar-dip="100">

Accent (level 0..127): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" accent="100" accent-type="higher">

Accent (level 0..127): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" accent="127" accent-type="highest">

Staccato (Length in percent of length without staccato): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" staccato="50">

Downstroke: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" downstroke="yes">

Upstroke: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" upstroke="yes">

Rhytmic Figure, Fill, Riff, Rytmic Fill and Tacet <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" rhytmic-figure="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" riff="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" fill="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" rhytmic-fill="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" tacet="yes">

Kind regards
Mogens


snake wrote:Hi Mogens,

I’m happy with
Mogens Lundholm wrote:<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50" guitar-mute="yes">

or
snake wrote:<vibrato-times>8</vibrato-time>
<vibrato-level>50</vibrato-level>

Although the first one is more eloquent.

> <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-let-ring="yes">

or <let-ring>
</let-ring>

is also good

I don’t like guitar-mute, it should be guitar-palm-mute or just palm-mute
Mogens Lundholm wrote:<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50" guitar-palm-mute="yes">

<palm-mute>
</palm-mute>

Remember palm-mute is not the same thing as mute, it’s a partial mute. Fully muted notes on the guitar are indicated with x note heads and have no neck position.

I would like to see everything in this Guitar Notation Legend implemented in MusicXML

<http://www.halleonard.com/bin/GuitarNotationLegend.pdf>

Cheers,

Mogens Lundholm wrote:Hello Snake and all

Doing the music-xml-player I have some thoughts about this. I would like vibrato, mute and let-ring to be a property of the note and also have information of how to do this. The example of an F-note below shows a solution with 8 times vibrato and 50% of a note step. This should be easy for me (and others) to convert into an adequate midi command. Example 1: Existing MuseScore plays this without notice, Finale gives a warning but accepts it. My player plays it. Of cause without vibrato. Do not have Midi-Specification here - A muted guitar exists as instrument, but I will call this tomorrow. Anyway the sound will be limited to what is possible for the midi synthesizer. But not impossible. (considering midi Control Change 76,77,78: Vibrato, 1: Modulation Wheel , 39 Volume, 64: Damper, 66 Sostenuto, 74 Brightness and others - not perfect, they affect the channel). <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50" guitar- mute="yes"> <pitch> <step>F</step> <octave>4</octave> </pitch>
<duration>1</duration>
<voice>1</voice>
<type>quarter</type>
<stem>up</stem>
</note>

And let ring: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-let-ring="yes">

Could this be acceptable? (Style and functionality - enough information to set the symbol at right place) An alternative solution would be

<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00">
<pitch>
<step>F</step>
<octave>4</octave>
</pitch>
<duration>1</duration>
<voice>1</voice>
<vibrato-times>8</vibrato-time>
<vibrato-level>50</vibrato-level>
<type>quarter</type>
<stem>up</stem>
</note>

However this is not accepted by MuseScore nor Finale.But the first solution is compatible with existing MuseScore and Finale.

Look forward to hear your opinion

Kind regards
Mogens


Mogens Lundholm
 
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RE: Guitar tab performance instructions

Postby Scott Lis » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:28 am

Looks like you guys have the guitar notation covered. It would be a good test to line up some advanced students to see how accurately they can reproduce the original intent from reading the score -- once it is available.

-Scott

Mogens Lundholm wrote:Hello Snake and all

Thanks for your good comment. What do the originators of Music XML think about adding such stuff as properties to a note definition? Advantage: Works with existing programs MuseScore and Finale (ignored - a warning comes in Finale). May be expanded with all symbols listed in GuitarNotationLegend.

<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" palm-mute="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" let-ring="yes">

or with "guitar prefix" <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-palm-mute="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-let-ring="yes">

This could be easily expanded with the symbols in GuitarNotationLegend:
(put on the first note, "tie"-defines the other note)

Bend to next note (note pitch decides the step): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" bend="yes">

Grace Note Bend: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" grace-note-bend="yes">

Slight: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" slight="yes">

Bend and Release: (The first note have "bend", the next "release") <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" release="yes">

Prebend: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" prebend="yes">

Unison Bend: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" unison-bend="yes">

<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50" vibrato-wide="no">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="4,100" vibrato-wide="yes">
- Numbers for the player, yes or no for the note-sheet

Hammer On <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" hammer-on="yes">

Pull-off <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" pull-off="yes">

Legato Slide <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" legato-slide="yes">

Shift Slide <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" shift-slide="yes">

Trill (5 times 100% of halfnote) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" trill="5,100">

Tapping <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" tapping="yes">

Natural Harmonic (The number is the division = here half of the string length) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" natural-harmonic="2">

Pinch Harmonic (The number is the division = here half of the string length) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" pinch-harmonic="2">

Harp Harmonic (The number is the division = here half of the string length) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" harp-harmonic="2">

Pick Scrape (500% of halfnote = 5 steps) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" pick-scrape="500">

Muffled Strings (applied on all the notes involved) ("strings" or
"string"?) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" muffled-strings="yes">

Palm Mute (applied on all notes involved) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" palm-mute="yes">

Rake (tie defines how long) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" rake="yes">

Tremolo Picking (Here picked 9 times) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" tremolo-picking="9">

Arpeggiate (Number of rolls) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" arpeggiate="4">

Vibrato Bar Drive (The note pitch defines the step) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato-bar-drive="yes">

Vibrato Bar Scoop (The note pitch defines the step) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato-bar-scoop="yes">

Vibrato Bar Dip (100% of half step) <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato-bar-dip="100">

Accent (level 0..127): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" accent="100" accent-type="higher">

Accent (level 0..127): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" accent="127" accent-type="highest">

Staccato (Length in percent of length without staccato): <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" staccato="50">

Downstroke: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" downstroke="yes">

Upstroke: <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" upstroke="yes">

Rhytmic Figure, Fill, Riff, Rytmic Fill and Tacet <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" rhytmic-figure="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" riff="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" fill="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" rhytmic-fill="yes">
<note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" tacet="yes">

Kind regards
Mogens

Somebody wrote:Hi Mogens,

I’m happy with

or

Although the first one is more eloquent.

> <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-let-ring="yes">

or <let-ring>
</let-ring>

is also good

I don’t like guitar-mute, it should be guitar-palm-mute or just palm-mute

<palm-mute>
</palm-mute>

Remember palm-mute is not the same thing as mute, it’s a partial mute. Fully muted notes on the guitar are indicated with x note heads and have no neck position.

I would like to see everything in this Guitar Notation Legend implemented in MusicXML

<http://www.halleonard.com/bin/GuitarNotationLegend.pdf>

Cheers,

On 22 Feb 2014, >> wrote:
> Hello Snake and all
>
> Doing the music-xml-player I have some thoughts about this. I would
> like vibrato, mute and let-ring to be a property of the note and also
> have information of how to do this. The example of an F-note below
> shows a solution with 8 times vibrato and 50% of a note step. This
> should be easy for me (and others) to convert into an adequate midi
> command. Example 1: Existing MuseScore plays this without notice,
> Finale gives a warning but accepts it. My player plays it. Of cause
> without vibrato. Do not have Midi-Specification here - A muted guitar
> exists as instrument, but I will call this tomorrow. Anyway the sound
> will be limited to what is possible for the midi synthesizer. But not
> impossible. (considering midi Control Change 76,77,78: Vibrato, 1:
> Modulation Wheel , 39 Volume, 64: Damper, 66 Sostenuto, 74 Brightness
> and others - not perfect, they affect the channel). <note
> default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" vibrato="8,50" guitar-
> mute="yes"> <pitch> <step>F</step> <octave>4</octave> </pitch>
> <duration>1</duration>
> <voice>1</voice>
> <type>quarter</type>
> <stem>up</stem>
> </note>
>
> And let ring:
> <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00" guitar-let-ring="yes">
>
> Could this be acceptable? (Style and functionality - enough information
> to set the symbol at right place)
> An alternative solution would be
>
> <note default-x="126.14" default-y="-35.00">
> <pitch>
> <step>F</step>
> <octave>4</octave>
> </pitch>
> <duration>1</duration>
> <voice>1</voice>
> <type>quarter</type>
> <stem>up</stem>
> </note>
>
> However this is not accepted by MuseScore nor Finale.But the first
> solution is compatible with existing MuseScore and Finale.
>
> Look forward to hear your opinion
>
> Kind regards
> Mogens
>
>
>> Dolet 6 is generating the following.
>> Palm Mute
>> <direction-type>
>> <words default-y='11' relative-x='-5'>P.M.</words>
>> </direction-type>
>> I would like to see something like this.
>> <technical>
>> <palm mute>
>> <string>5</string>
>> <fret>0</fret>
>> </palm mute>
>> </technical>
>> Let Ring
>> <direction-type>
>> <words default-y='24' relative-x='-1'>let ring</words>
>> </direction-type>
>> I would like to see
>> <technical>
>> <let ring>
>> <string>2</string>
>> <fret>5</fret>
>> </let ring>
>> </technical>
>> Vibrato
>> Nothing is generated
>> I would like to see
>> <technical>
>> <vibrato>
>> <string>2</string>
>> <fret>5</fret>
>> </vibrato>
>> </technical>
>> These new elements would give us the Visual Notation and Performance
>> Cheers,
Scott Lis
 
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Re: Guitar tab performance instructions

Postby snake » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:35 am

Michael,

Is it hard to implement these changes so Vibrato, Palm Mute (P.M.) and Let Ring can be easily encoded into MusicXML?

How long is this likely to take?

I am a programmer but my knowledge of XML is limited.

My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that MusicXML updates are stored on line at

http://www.musicxml.org/dtds/partwise.dtd

You would need to make changes to the note.mod file adding new elements for "Vibrato", "Palm Mute" and "Let Ring" or by adding these articulations to the existing "note" element?

Applications can reference the .dtd from there and incorporate any new elements into their MusicXML importers and exporters.

Am I on the right track here?
snake
 
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Joined: March, 2014
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Re: Guitar tab performance instructions

Postby Michael Good » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:38 pm

Hi Snake,

We are not planning to make any MusicXML changes prior to work on MusicXML 4.0. Currently we plan to start MusicXML work after SMuFL 1.0 is completed, so that would like mean the middle of 2014 at the earliest.

Again, your problems here seem likely to be in the MusicXML software, not the MusicXML DTD. All these notations can already be encoded in MusicXML using the direction element. Adding redundant features to the DTD generally does not tend to help interoperability; it usually makes things worse. But we can revisit this once we start working on MusicXML 4.0 features in earnest.
Michael Good
VP of MusicXML Technologies
MakeMusic, Inc.
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Michael Good
 
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Re: Guitar tab performance instructions

Postby snake » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:14 am

Hey Michael,

Any movement on this?
snake
 
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Re: Guitar tab performance instructions

Postby snake » Mon May 25, 2015 1:05 am

Hey Michael,

Can you provide and example using the direction element for indicating "let ring", "palm mute"

Cheers,

Snake...
snake
 
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Re: Guitar tab performance instructions

Postby Michael Good » Fri May 29, 2015 12:06 pm

There are some examples just a few posts back based on Dolet's export. Those look like standalone P.M. and let ring text. Sometimes those are combined with dashed lines to indicate duration, in which case the direction-type with the words element would be followed with a direction-type with the dashes or bracket element.

Getting more semantics into markup has been a pretty consistent theme from many people in terms of MusicXML's evolution, so we may well tackle this as part of MusicXML 4.0 development. I hope we see that start going within the next 2 months or so (I will be on vacation for much of June).
Michael Good
VP of MusicXML Technologies
MakeMusic, Inc.
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