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'extend' notes in lyrics.

Moderator: Michael Good

'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby David Webber » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:01 am

In music where a lyric syllable extends under more than one note, there is an extension line extending under the second note (and any more).

In MusicXML, this is indicated by adding an 'extend' node to the 'lyric' node for the syllable.

Am I right in thinking that the subsequent notes, under which the extension line goes, should have no lyric node attached? That is what is indicated by the syllable "dich," in the supplied example BeetAnGeSample.xml.

However two things have given me doubts:

a) there would appear to be no way to end the extension line before the note on which the next lyric syllable occurs (or have I missed it)? b) Finale NotePad 2012 does not show the extension line when the sample is imported, so I'm worrying about the syntax.

Can anyone resolve this?

Dave

David Webber
Mozart Music Software
http://www.mozart.co.uk/
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Re: 'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby Michael Good » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:23 pm

Hi David,

MusicXML 3.0 added type and positioning attributes to provide better formatting control, including explicit indications of when lyric extension lines start and stop.

In Finale 2012c, you don't see the lyric line in the import because Finale is not processing all the detailed formatting in the MusicXML example file. Instead, it relies on its default music spacing, which in this case means there not enough space to display the lyric extension line, based on the default positioning options. In Finale, if you make the measure wider, you will see the extension line appear. This is another example of the interdependency of notation formatting, and the need for interpretation if you cannot handle all the details of the format, or if you want to allow editing or interactivity.

Best regards,

Michael Good
MakeMusic, Inc.

David Webber wrote:In music where a lyric syllable extends under more than one note, there is an extension line extending under the second note (and any more).

In MusicXML, this is indicated by adding an 'extend' node to the 'lyric' node for the syllable.

Am I right in thinking that the subsequent notes, under which the extension line goes, should have no lyric node attached? That is what is indicated by the syllable "dich," in the supplied example BeetAnGeSample.xml.

However two things have given me doubts:

a) there would appear to be no way to end the extension line before the note on which the next lyric syllable occurs (or have I missed it)? b) Finale NotePad 2012 does not show the extension line when the sample is imported, so I'm worrying about the syntax.

Can anyone resolve this?
Michael Good
VP of MusicXML Technologies
MakeMusic, Inc.
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Re: 'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby David Webber » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:19 am

Forgive me for getting back to you on <extend/> after nearly a year of other distractions.

MusicXML 3's 'note.mod' tells me

<!ATTLIST extend
type %start-stop-continue; #IMPLIED
%print-style;>

but I'm not 100% sure how the 'type' attribute should be used.

For backward compatibility I guess <extend/> (with implied type) on a lyric element (containing text) mean that a line should be drawn extending under the next note, which itself should have no <lyric> element.

To extend the line under two notes after a lyric syllable do I structure it as

<note>
.. <lyric>
<text>lyricsyllable</text>
<extend/ type="start">
</lyric>
</note>

<note>
.. <lyric>
<extend/ type="continue">
</lyric>
</note>

<note>
.. <lyric>
<extend/ type="stop">
</lyric>
</note>

with no actual <text> note on the last two <note>s?

Dave

David Webber
Mozart Music Software
http://www.mozart.co.uk/


Hi David,

MusicXML 3.0 added type and positioning attributes to provide better formatting control, including explicit indications of when lyric extension lines start and stop.

In Finale 2012c, you don't see the lyric line in the import because Finale is not processing all the detailed formatting in the MusicXML example file. Instead, it relies on its default music spacing, which in this case means there not enough space to display the lyric extension line, based on the default positioning options. In Finale, if you make the measure wider, you will see the extension line appear. This is another example of the interdependency of notation formatting, and the need for interpretation if you cannot handle all the details of the format, or if you want to allow editing or interactivity.

Best regards,

Michael Good
MakeMusic, Inc.


David Webber wrote:In music where a lyric syllable extends under more than one note, there is an extension line extending under the second note (and any more).

In MusicXML, this is indicated by adding an 'extend' node to the 'lyric' node for the syllable.

Am I right in thinking that the subsequent notes, under which the extension line goes, should have no lyric node attached? That is what is indicated by the syllable "dich," in the supplied example BeetAnGeSample.xml.

However two things have given me doubts:

a) there would appear to be no way to end the extension line before the note on which the next lyric syllable occurs (or have I missed it)? b) Finale NotePad 2012 does not show the extension line when the sample is imported, so I'm worrying about the syntax.

Can anyone resolve this?
David Webber
 
Posts: 148
Joined: March, 2014
Reputation: 0

Re: 'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby Michael Good » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:01 am

Hi Dave,

This is pretty much right. You only need to add the extend elements with the continue type if you are changing formatting, typically at a system break. The original <extend/> element leaves the end of the lyric extension up to the application.

Best regards, Michael

wrote:
David Webber wrote:Forgive me for getting back to you on <extend/> after nearly a year of other distractions. MusicXML 3's 'note.mod' tells me

<!ATTLIST extend> type %start-stop-continue; #IMPLIED
%print-style;

but I'm not 100% sure how the 'type' attribute should be used.

For backward compatibility I guess <extend/> (with implied type) on a lyric element (containing text) mean that a line should be drawn extending under the next note, which itself should have no <lyric> element. To extend the line under two notes after a lyric syllable do I structure it as <note>
.. <lyric>
<text>lyricsyllable</text>
<extend/ type="start">
</lyric>
</note>

<note>
.. <lyric>
<extend/ type="continue">
</lyric>
</note>

<note>
.. <lyric>
<extend/ type="stop">
</lyric>
</note>

with no actual <text> note on the last two <note>s?

Dave

David Webber Mozart Music Software
http://www.mozart.co.uk/
Michael Good
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Re: 'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby zimrahdev » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:06 am

Hi Michael,

Forgive me for chipping in on this one, I need to get some clear directions so as to unblock a situation.

From what I have understood in this thread, this is how the <extend/> node should be used.

1. In the case where the duration of a syllable goes over one extra note (two notes in total), the <extend> node is only put in the lyric node under the first note. Nothing is put under the second note.
Code: Select all
<note ... >
   ...
   <lyric>
      <syllabic>single</syllabic>
      <text>Te</text>
      <extend/>
   </lyric>
</note>
<note ...>
   ...
</note>


2. When the duration of a syllable goes over multiple notes, the lyric node under the first note contains the following node : <extend type="start" />, all following notes contain a lyric node with <extend type="continue" />, except the ending node where the lyric node contains <extend type="stop" />.
Code: Select all
<note ... >
   ...
   <lyric>
      <syllabic>single</syllabic>
      <text>You</text>
      <extend type="start" />
   </lyric>
</note>
<note ...>
   ...
   <lyric>
      <extend type="continue" />
   </lyric>
</note>
<note ...>
   ...
   <lyric>
      <extend  type="stop" />
   </lyric>
</note>


3. Special case - a syllable goes over two notes and the third note does not have a lyric syllable. In this case, the first note should have
Code: Select all
<extend type="start" />
and the second note
Code: Select all
<extend type="stop" />
.

Do you agree with this ?
Is this correct to go with ?

Best regards
Simon
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Re: 'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby Michael Good » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:45 am

Hi Simon,

You want the <extend type="start"/> to be on the syllable that starts the extension, and the <extend type="stop"/> to be on the last note that is sung on that syllable. So if a syllable is sung on an F and a G, you would want the <extend type="stop"/> to go on the G. There is no special case for a syllable that only covers 2 notes. It would be good to clarify the documentation of the extend element to explain this better.

There's no need to add <extend type="continue"/> elements except perhaps at system breaks, especially if the vertical positioning of the extension line changes between systems. But it does no harm to add it either.

The type attribute and positioning formatting attributes were added to the extend element in MusicXML 3.0. So there are probably many examples of software and music that use the MusicXML 2.0 style of a single <extend/> element at the beginning of the extension.
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Re: 'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby zimrahdev » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:09 am

Thank you Michael for your clarification.
One further thing, though.

The documentation states that the type attribute is not required.
However, would it be correct to say that it is recommended, notably when "extending" over multiple notes ?
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Re: 'extend' notes in lyrics.

Postby Michael Good » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:38 am

Sure - it is always better to provide more information if you can.
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